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 Post subject: Comparison of army list in Book 3
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:34 am 
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Comparison of army list in Book 3 of DBMM2 & DBMM2.1 army books

Changes on foot notes on army list are not listed unless it has a material effect on game play.

Changes in army points of BwS not listed


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 Post subject: Re: Comparison of army list in Book 3
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:41 am 
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9. BURMESE 500 AD - 1526 AD

From:
Thai allies:
- Thai ally-general on elephant - lrr El (0) @ 21 AP *1


Now:
Thai allies:
- Thai ally-general on elephant, commanding all and only Thai - lrr El (0) @ 21 AP *1


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 Post subject: Re: Comparison of army list in Book 3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:51 pm 
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https://beta.groups.yahoo.com/neo/group ... ges/177502


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 Post subject: Re: Comparison of army list in Book 3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:52 pm 
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Here is what I have found to have changed (or to be dubious) in the new Book 3.

Book 3

1. Early Slav
Added "Only Western Slavs in 642: pits and ditches to defend camp - HO 1-2 per Bge(O)".

Added
"Only Bohemian Western Slavs 1004 - 1105:
Upgrade generals to German-style milites - Irr Kn(I) @ 18AP All
Upgrade noble cavalry generals to German-style milites - Irr Kn(I) @ 8AP 1/2 - all
(Presumably the "generals" on the second line is a clumsy copy-and-paste error.)

Notes changed from:
"Western Slavs are the Carantani of Austrian Carinthia until absorbed by the Franks and the Bohemians and Moravians until the acquisition of their lands by Poland in 1003."
to:
"Western Slavs are the Carantani of Austrian Carinthia until finally assimilated by the German military system circa 1106."

This _may_ have lost a line; I pointed out that as the v1 lists stood, no list covered Bohemia from 1003 until it apparently fell under the Medieval German list that starts 1106; but that Polish acquisition of Bohemia in 1003 was very short-lived, so maybe Bohemia should stay in this list. So something like:
"Western Slavs are the Carantani of Austrian Carinthia until absorbed by the Franks and the Bohemians and Moravians until finally assimilated by the German military system circa 1106."
- may have been intended. Or perhaps not.
The main motive for my suggestion was to cover an incident in 1040 when a German army was defeated attempting to storm a Bohemian earthwork; but we don't get the earthwork.


4. Early Byzantine
This is _very_ petty, but: the famous brilliant general is spelled "Belisarios" in this list. But it's Belisari_u_s that allies in 2/83 can't use.

7. Pre-samurai Japanese
C-in-c as Reg Bw(S) should cost 27 AP, but is listed as 26 in both the Kofun and Ritsuryo entries. This is unchanged from v1.

Uji Pk(X) are now "1-2 per 3 Bw(S) or (O)" (previously just "per 3 Bw").

10. Hindu Indian
The subheading "Only Palas from 810 AD to 850 AD or Rashtrakutas" is correctly spaced and emboldened.

14.Early Bulgar
Starts in 558 AD, not 559.

15. Tibetan
Camp or pack-yaks are now "0-2 per Tibetan general", not just "per general".

Nomad allies are "...Aza/T'u-yu-hun..." instead of "...Aza...".

Nepalese ally-general is now "commanding all and only Nepalese".
Nepalese pack-ponies are "0-2 per Nepalese general", not just "0-2".

Notes add that nomad generals can command only nomads.

16. Khazar
C-in-c is now defined as:
"C-in-c (Khagan before 830 AD or after 950 AD, Beg from 830 AD to 950 AD, Tarkhan if neither present) as Khazar nobles".

Khagan's wagon is "(only if Beg is C-in-c)".

TF stakes to protect camp are defined as "some hung with shields".

Ras are defined as "Ras (Alans)".

In the 738-965 period, only Cv(S) generals can be upgraded to Reg, not Kn(F) generals.


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 Post subject: Re: Comparison of army list in Book 3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:52 pm 
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17. Maurikian Byzantine
The C-in-c's number is not right-aligned, so the line reads "...@ 30AP1".

19. Welsh
In the 842 to 1144 AD options:
- Dublin or Manx Viking allies added.
- Ostmen or other Viking mercenaries are now "3/4 to all Irr Bd(O) or Irr Bd(I)", not just Bd(O).
- 0-4 "Irr Bts(S) [can shoot]" are added.

"North Welsh C-in-c from 1150" loses the option for a South Welsh ally; this is moved to "North Welsh C-in-c from 1400 to 1411".

22. Maya
"Pits and stakes - HO @ 2AP 0-3" appears twice, "after 1461" and "after 1523" (was just "after 1523" in v1).

Spanish ally-general is "commanding all and only Spanish".

23. Khmer/Cham
Archers Reg Bw(O) option is described as "with pavises".

Khmer Maiden Guard are now up to 1/2 Reg Kn(I); the remainder are the Reg Ax(O) that was the only option in v1.

"Thai ally-general" is now "commanding all and only Thai". The Syam Kuk are still called "Thai"; the only concession to the current consensus that they're probably _not_ Thai is that the notes change from "Thai have been identified..." to "Possible Thai have been identified...".

To the "Only Khmer or Cham after 1170AD" heading is added:
"Push-carts carrying mantlet-protected javelinmen on raised platform - Reg WWg(X) @ 7AP 0 or 3"

24. Middle Anglo-Saxon
As in the v2.1 DBMM rules:
Warband from 700 AD convert to Bd(O) instead of v1's Sp(O).

Some suggestions about possible standards at the end of the notes.

25. Arab Conquest
Terrain adds S from 636 AD.

Replacement of 0-1 Bge by Irr Bge(S) "women urging warriors on" is moved to "Only after 630 AD".

30. Magyar
Adds 3/32 Volga Bulgar as enemies.

32. Volga Bulgar
Has BUAf instead of BUA.

Adds 3/30 Magyar as enemies.

All generals and up to a quarter of Bulgar cavalry become Irr Kn(F) (remaining cavalry still Cv(O)). Cavalry minimum reduced from 10 to 8.

0-2 Art(I) or (O) allowed within BUAf.

Nomad ally-generals are now "commanding only nomads".

33. Early Muslim North Africa & Sicily
"Arab spearmen" in 740-742 and 760-794 are now "Ahl Khurasani jund Arab spearmen". In the notes Ahl Khurasan are glossed as "(ethnic Arabs previously stationed in Khurasan)".

"Khurasanian" Irr Cv(S) in 795-818 are now "Abbasiya" (same classification). In the notes they are glossed as "ethnically Iranian cavalry from Khurasan fighting with lance and bow and riding (probably felt) armoured horses)".

The "Any after 1000 AD..." sub-heading is now properly emboldened and spaced.

34. Andalusian
Adds "Rope-pull stone throwers Reg Art(I) 0-2".

From 765 AD, adds "Berber foot riding mules - Reg mtd Ax(O) 0-6".

35. Feudal Spanish
New heading "Only after 1147": upgrade Any Kn to Irr Kn(O) (previously allowed after 1200), and bidets and almughavars (as previously after 1150).

39. Nan-chao
"DH or O" is no longer compulsory.

Thai ally-general is now "commanding all and only Thai".

37. Abbasid
Ps(O) archers "can support any Reg Sp(O) or (I)", which clarifies the uncertainty about whether they could support Abna and Maghariba.

Bd(F) from 836 are "0-1 per 4 Bd(I)", instead of just "per Bd".

No change in cavalry upgrades.

38. Arab Indian
After 900 AD the C-in-c can now optionally be upgraded to Reg Cv(S) with ghulam bodyguard.

39. Late Tang and Five Dynasties
Sub-general is now "Reg Cv(S) or Reg Bd(F)", instead of Cv(O) or (S).

0-6 Reg Art(O) bolt-shooters, 0-2 Reg Art(S) or (I) stone-throwers, and 0-12 TF palisades are now available to all armies.

Southern auxiliary Ax(S) are now spelled "Chuang", not Zhuang.

"Other armies:" options is now "Any army from 907b AD except those of southern states:"

The list of armies who can use Turkish LH now leads with "Later T'ang" not "Late T'ang", despite the list notes pointing out that "Later T'ang" is a completely different army not covered in this list.

40. Norse Viking or Leidang
As in the 2.1 rules.

C-in-c now has a Bd(F) option only before 850 AD, thereafter can only be Bd(O). "...from 850 BC" should be "AD".

"Sub-general or ally-general" instead of "sub-general"; still "as above".

Viking from 850 have an option instead of palisade TF for 0 or 24-36 FO pits with HO hidden obstacle stratagem.

Danish leidang after 1229 or Swedish after 1256 can have Teutonic Orders allies.

46. Norse-Irish
Compulsory "WH or M" is now compulsory "M". (WH is not permitted at all.)
"BUA" is now "BUA, BUAf"; and notes say that "BUAf" must be town, monastery or rath.
The survival of "BUA" in the terrain list may be an error?

Ostmen sub=general is now "(commanding all and only Ostmen)". Additional "Ostmen archers - Irr Bw(O) 1 per 2 Ostmen Bd(I)": note, not "per Bd(O) or (I)".

Marcshluag Cv/LH are from 1099 instead of from 1131.

The Ostmen or Gall Gaedhil Bts(S) longships before 1164 have disappeared. Birlinns Bts(O) from 1164 are now "Ostman or Irish", no longer Gall Gaedhil.

Gall Gaedhil mercenaries before 1260 have disappeared. "Gall Gaedhil were Islesmen mercenaries" is still in the notes; but Islesmen allies from the "Scots Isles..." list are now allowed from 1171, s that's OK.

Connacht 1166-1175 has an Inert c-in-c option.

Norman allies: Norman general is "commanding all Normans and Welsh".
Welsh foot are now two separate lines: "Welsh javelinmen Irr Ax(O) or English levies Irr Sp(I) 0-4" and "Welsh archers Irr Bw(S) or Irr Mtd Bw(S) **4-8".
(Note that the Norman general apparently cannot command the English levies, unless the "Norman allies" heading is enough to make them into Normans; in which case the "... and Welsh" seems redundant.)

48. Rus
Has gained BUAf instead of BUA.

Has gained Oghuz (Central Asian Turk) allies in 960-967.

49. Tulunid/Iqshidid
Has gained BUAf instead of BUA.

53. East Frankish
Now allowed 0-4 ships Irr Bts(S) or (O).

Edward the Confessor is "commanding all English".

0-1 Irr Bge(S) standard-wagon allowed from 1085 AD.

54. Dynastic Bedouin
Has gained BUAf instead of BUA.

Irr Bts(O) now called "Zabzab boats" and can carry "[any foot or ghulams dismounted as Bw(O)]".

55. Early Samurai
"DH" in the terrain list is underlined but not bold. (In v1 it was neither).

Monk ally-general is "commanding all and only monks".

Last line of the notes is now "Artillery can be used only in palisaded camps."

57. Koryo Korean
War wagon WWg (O) replaced by "Battle chariots" Reg WWg(X), and notes say "probably WWg(X) like Sung examples".


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 Post subject: Re: Comparison of army list in Book 3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:57 pm 
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For possible expansion of options, need to buy:

10 x Generic Chinese Hordes
More Korean troops to expand Kaya to Paechae


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 Post subject: Re: Comparison of army list in Book 3
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:20 pm 
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Posts: 2
Something is wrong with the way the web page encodes your postings. When I use Print View, Copy All, and Paste into my text editor , some of the information goes missing. Specifically lists 10 thru about 17 is blank. Its probably somehow hidden or invisible.

I'm also not seeing images in the threads which supposedly contain them; just text descriptions of the file names - Not URLs which could be clicked on.


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